For my long-time subscribers, here’s a treat in December!
Every Friday I’ll share an episode of “Just Share” - a pod my friend Josiah and I created.
It's dedicated to exploring the minds of experts in their fields, with the goal of decreasing barriers to learning more about ourselves and the world around us.
You can listen above, download it, watch the video below, or read the transcript.
What we would most love is to hear your reactions!
So please share in the comments.
Or catch us running around Columbus, Ohio.
Below is the automated podcast episode transcript with very light editing.
All right, Caitlin Faas here for the inaugural episode of the pod Just Share.
It's dedicated to exploring the minds of experts in their fields, with the goal of decreasing barriers to learning more about ourselves and the world around us.
Each week, I have a guest or two where they share their thoughts on decreasing these barriers, sparking curiosity, their tips for learning.
Today, I have my friend Josiah Clemons, a young professional from the city of Columbus where we both live.
And so I'm excited to have Josiah introduce himself and we'll highlight how we know each other.
Sounds good.
Thank you for having me today, Caitlin.
I'm really, really excited to be here.
So yeah, no, my background is a bit unique.
I've lived in Ohio for about 12 or 13 years now.
And my background as a professional, I started in the city of Dayton working for a small marketing company, but my real background is in data analysis.
And I've worked for since over the last few years for Kroger corporate, for Fifth Third Bank and for the Hershey company.
And so most recently I've been working with a startup and guiding them in the best data practices in the world.
So definitely excited to be here.
Yeah, and we met just over a year ago approximately.
Just about, yeah.
In a workout group.
It was, yes, the November Project workout group.
It's got chapters all over the world.
We met in the one called the Scioto Mile in Columbus, Ohio.
And so that was really how our friendship started.
And I'm actually one of the co-leaders there now.
And so it's been a great journey over this last year.
Yes, and we've gotten to know each other in person at a variety of parties, at running events, workout events.
One of the things I most appreciate about you is your ability to ask questions of people and go in depth.
Yes, absolutely.
And one of the things I definitely most appreciate about my friendship with Caitlin has been her willingness to just listen and listen deeply and intently and then ask as well, you know, curious questions at the end of conversations that really, really gets you to the next level.
And so that's something that was certainly the inspiration, you know, beside or behind this pod and what we're doing here.
Yes.
And the pod idea for years has been percolating.
I just was missing a partner in crime to bring it to the surface.
And also, perhaps the older I get and at a certain professional level, it also becomes like, hey, I just want to do projects for fun.
And this, when Josiah and I were talking about it, has been like, this will just be fun.
Whatever happens.
It would, yes.
I remember, I think it was at one of the socials.
We were just, you know, hanging out and just one of the other of us, I can't remember who said it, but was like, we should start, we should start a pod.
You know, it's been, you know, let's actually get this off the ground.
And then the, you know, the name and inspiration really, really came after that.
So certainly been something a long time in the making.
And yeah, just giving each other maybe that needed push.
Yeah.
Okay, so back to your data analysis background.
Yes.
And that this is where you are.
And first question I want to ask is, where do you see yourself going with this?
Or what are some of your dreams in this field on the horizon for you?
For sure.
Yeah, great question.
So one of the things that I've really been focused on, especially these last few years, is what does ethical data collection look like?
Like my day to day is sorting over whatever the company needs me to from the vast amounts of, What's the best and most responsible way to collect data?
Inventions, you really have a responsibility as an early adopter, to make sure that you're setting others up well, you know, for future generations for future understandings of how the technology should be used.
And a lot of times in my field, I see there's there's a rush to collect all the data, but nobody standing over it saying, Okay, is this appropriate or responsible?
And part of what I'm hearing and what you're saying is, uh, it can be easy to default to thinking about companies or algorithms like, Oh, they're just out to get me.
And they just want to tell me stuff.
And I can say that in daily conversation sometimes.
And hearing you speak about it just now is like, wait, there are people behind the companies like Josiah,
How do you navigate that bridge between sometimes just being like, ah, like corporations after my data to this ethical piece?
It's so tricky.
I mean, you're absolutely right.
There's a fine line you have to walk every day.
Because on the one hand, do we want things very quickly?
Are we a culture and just like Western society in general?
We enjoy having things at our fingertips.
And so, for example,
One of the projects I was involved with at Kroger was towards the beginning part of the pandemic, where individuals were using the shopping online option just much more.
Before the pandemic, it was maybe 10% to 15% of people that were shopping online at Kroger, and that spiked to over half.
At one point, we had 60% of our customers where we're coming in and using the delivery options or the rapid pickup and drop off options or quickly coming in to get medications from pharmacies and things like that.
So there's a lot more.
But people wanting that information quickly, you have to understand there's data being collected on the other side.
So we know the location where we're at.
So we can say your prescription will be ready in x amount of time.
Or there's a difference just layer of understanding the balance.
How do we get something quickly or efficiently to a group of people that are that are asking for it?
But what's the correct amount of data to request on the beginning side, you know, the little cookie button that everybody sees go by, you know, at the bottom of all your websites and apps that says, Hey, like, is it all right for us to collect the data?
You know, I'm, I'm somebody that I read that every time, like, I want to know, you know, what they're actually collecting.
And sometimes there's ways to opt out of it.
If you're I know you as someone who very heart centered and shows up in a caring way for people.
And I don't see this data side of you.
And because it's your work.
Yeah, about it right now.
And I'm realizing, especially like coaching clients I have and working with leaders.
A lot of them have trouble transitioning between work.
Like that's brain on a stick.
I'm in the data all day, in the spreadsheets.
How do I show up for family and friends?
And yet what I'm recognizing is like, wait, you're one of the people who does this well.
You must be based on what I know about you.
Yeah, no, I mean, that's a very generous, you know, assumption that it's, you know, that I do well, so I appreciate that.
But for sure, it's a, it's a balance, like I said, but it's also, you know, something that I think, you know, transitions well to what this podcast is about, you know, decreasing those, those barriers and being as flexible as you can.
And so do I do I have my workbox a lot of the time?
My caring sense to come out at work and advocating for empathetic either data collection techniques or just empathetic meetings in general, rather than having a meeting for the sake of a meeting, maybe the empathetic practice of the day is to, you know, have a meeting free day of the week, you know, you just cancel all meetings.
And it's like, everybody's going to catch up the next day, we're all going to be fine.
And just giving everybody space and time in their calendar back.
And so allowing that permeability of my empathy to show at work where it needs to.
But then also, you know, sharing, you know, with others that I encounter outside of work, you know, how to be more careful in their data practices.
And so showing showing my care about data through caring about other people.
But you're absolutely right.
Like it is it is difficult at times to separate out the two.
I'm curious how that shows up for you generationally at work.
This is where I default to as a developmental psychology background.
You called yourself a young professional in the beginning.
We have about a seven, eight year difference in age between us.
So I'm curious how that shows up as you're speaking about empathetically while you're working with people who are generally, I'm guessing, older than you.
Right, right.
Yeah, cross generationally, I have certainly been the youngest professional on most of my teams for quite some time, you know, fifth third bank especially, but also more on the Kroger side too.
And I think one of the main things that has helped me is just realizing that it's, it's okay for people to have different approaches to technology and like how we're using the same platforms.
And to be less frustrated at differences and more, you know, kind of seeking those barrier breakers, you're noticing, you know, this one person really enjoys email, like, do I enjoy email, you know, not, not so much.
I'd rather be talking face-to-face to somebody or instant messaging them on Microsoft Teams at work, but understanding the mediums that they communicate through and using that as less of an opportunity to be, you can be resentful about that or you can just be like, well, that's how it is right now and if it's easier for me to meet them where they're at, then we're going to get more done on this project together.
And so just having that flexible mindset has certainly helped.
And then one of the personal things I like to do in each of my last roles, so this startup company that I've been working at for the past few months, as well as Kroger before that, I started having what we called Lunch and Learns, which is a topic that I found interesting, whether that was how to gather data, you know, ethically, whether that was, you know, here's how to use our new software system, but something that was an informal chat, you know, where people could usually Friday afternoons, not really a lot of work is being done anyway.
And so just asking people just like, hey, like, you know, show up, you know, watch, watch me walk through a very brief, colorful PowerPoint, and then just ask questions of people and understand how they're working.
And I found those have really decreased those barriers, but also helped people to ask better questions or feel better about the questions they need to ask so there's not so much of a gap next time.
That makes sense.
So speaking of these decreasing barriers, how do you think about decreasing barriers in your field?
I mean, there's, there's a lot of ways that barriers can be decreased.
I think just one of them, you know, that we were talking about at the beginning of this conversation was just sharing about others more of what I do, I do tend to let the maybe the empathy side sink into my work a little bit more than I let the the data side come out in my
I feel like
There's there's opportunities everywhere, right?
And we have to decide whether or not we want to take advantage of them.
And yeah, like there's being curious is a huge factor there, I think, as well and allowing yourself to be flexible or understanding how other people work, even if it's not the way that you choose to work, how they choose to work.
and then, you know, decreasing the, not the difference between you two, but thinking of the information or the subject as almost a third entity and, you know, raising or lowering that gate to the other persons entering that.
and making it less about, oh, they're very different.
They're not going to get this.
Or, well, of course they understand this.
And just opening that information access up to them a little bit more rather than focusing on purely the differences between yourself and the other person.
What was it that helped you learn or multiple factors that helped you learn how you think about data?
Because I can hear it, that it is different from a lot of typical data analysis training programs.
Right?
No, it's a great question.
I think, I mean, the very first person that I remember when I was, you know, my first job after school, after I'd graduated, I had gotten my degree in business communications.
And so I was familiar with the business world and jumped right into a marketing role.
And I just had a mentor that really
I'm you know, going back to school, which I did end up doing, you know, and, and getting my degree in data science, you know, graduating 2019.
And so, you know, that, that master's degree wouldn't have happened without the, the push.
And that was like decreasing, like my own barrier.
I was like, ah, I don't think I'll really ever go back to school.
And this person was like, no, you know, like, you know, it's, it's going to take maybe a little bit of time, but it's going to be worth it.
And here's the direction that we see, you know, the, the, the data, you know, broader data fields moving in.
And so having a mentor I think is key, you know, somebody that understands the field but has a little bit more of a, you know, a longer look at it.
So somebody that's, you know, generally had more years of experience I've just found to be so helpful.
I love that.
Yeah, the mentors in my life have been crucial.
Yeah.
I'm thinking back to when I was a young professor, I really wanted to change the system and like all of academia.
I was just on this mission.
I had all this drive and ambition of like, OK, let's change how all this works.
And it led to a lot of burnout and leaving the field.
And so I'm curious for your corporate experience and then also
In the past several years, I don't know if you've had those kind of ambitions.
It does seem a little more settled for me the older I get.
So I'm stepping into relaxing into a whole system doesn't need to change.
Yeah, how do you do that?
How are you navigating that where you are in life right now?
I mean, you're, you're hitting the nail on the head in a lot of ways.
I'm probably, I'm probably still in my idealistic, you know, phase, um, you know, just, you know, embarking on my thirties, you know, or earlier this, this year.
And so you feel there, there's some change, um, you know, happening, but at the same time, you're like, ah, this is how I'm going to change, you know, the field of data science and data analytics.
And so probably some of that, that desire, that passion is still, still in there.
I have my, My Big Ideas.
You learn a lot in your 30s, I've heard.
But for me specifically, burnout can happen at any stage of the process.
You have what I call little burnouts.
This is just a project or an assignment or even a co-worker or a boss at times that's just like, okay, that's not
The Healthiest Relationship, or it's getting a little bit on you.
There's small burnout.
You show up either to that project or to a meeting with that person.
You're like, oh no, I'm instantly drained, and there goes my energy.
And so there's many, many times that I've reached that.
I have better solutions and things to help me now than I did certainly earlier on.
But as far as, you know, burnout overall, you know, and becoming so, so tired of a field like you're talking about, you know, with, you know, being a professor like that deeply resonates, you know, with me as well, especially at the beginning part of the pandemic, you know, there was a lot of people, myself included, in the tech industry that just taking a step back from it all.
And it wasn't just that, there were certainly other things happening in life that contributed to burnout, especially in 2021 for me.
But really getting some time and some space and some time off from work
Deliberately leaving my role at Kroger at the time and just spending time thinking through what I wanted my life to look like and what I was curious in doing and really just embarking on a lot of healthy practices at work that I hadn't been doing before, advocating for.
Yeah and it makes me think of we've talked our society is structured to help people transition from high school to college and people you know talk about gap year in between there and that experience and yet what are we doing for the transition of life from 28 to 30.
Actually we probably all need a sabbatical then for whatever career we chose and a break to kind of evaluate and look but
Are we set up for that in our culture?
I don't know.
Rush people, you know, from one one phase of life to the next, you know, or even, you know, just Western and society in general, like being being productive and being busy, you know, is seen as, you know, just such a high inequality, you know, if your life is busier than somebody else, it's ah, you know, that's something.
That's right.
That's why I'm glad we're building our relationship to Josiah because we are in a phase of being able to recognize how important that quality is based on where we've been, things we've been through, all of it.
Absolutely.
I'm looking forward to the partnership for sure.
What have I not asked you that you were like, I thought I was definitely going to talk about this on this podcast?
That's a good question.
I mean, I guess one of the things that I've, you know, a lot of the questions that I get asked when somebody hears, you know, that I've, you know, I've got a degree in data science or I'm working in the tech industry is, you know, what do you think about, you know, artificial intelligence and chat GPT?
Like those are the, I think of them as the, you know, the buzzwords, you know, that people like to talk about.
And so just for, you know,
Anybody listening that's not familiar with artificial intelligence, especially the last five to seven years, there's just been a lot of discussion from, we'll call them the early adopters, the people that are really interested in that sort of thing and trying to push the technology forward.
But it's becoming more mainstream now.
And ChatGPT in and of itself, I think, you know there's it has the potential to be something at least a little bit different than the artificial intelligence like your your alexa listening to alexa is a form of artificial intelligence something that's able to
And you can have a very, if you go to the website and have a conversation with it, it really gives you a lot of insight whether it's for your next project that you're working on or you want to learn about a subject matter.
It can really break down what you want to do.
And so I really kind of see that feels like people ask me how it's going to change, how it's going to grow.
A lot more people taking advantage of
you know, an intelligence is going to take over the world or, you know, somehow become, you know, self aware, like, I think that's, you know, if it does, at some point, you know, that'll that'll be, you know, at least, you know, 100 years in, you know, in the future.
So, but as far as it replacing our normal relationships that we rely on for that kind of information, whether that was somebody we could have mentored or been interested in mentoring by asking them the questions that were
We're now, you know, Googling or sending to GPT.
I think that that's going to have significant repercussions on relationships.
And then in my industry in particular, we're always, there's always a sense among us, you know, data scientists and engineers and software development people of which is going to be the next invention that's going to take away our jobs, you know, or at some point where you're not going to need a lot of human interaction.
You can just have the machines, you know, making their assumptions.
But the machines are only as good as the assumptions that the humans put into them at the beginning.
And so if you have flawed assumptions, then you're going to create something flawed that could have a big impact in the lives and relationships and workforces around you.
So artificial intelligence and chat GPT, that's my thoughts there.
There's some good and some danger for sure.
Yeah, well, and it makes me think of, if somebody is asking that question, my first question, life coaching background, emotional work background is like, are you asking me from fear?
Are you asking from curiosity?
Because the fear, right, is like that has very different lines of questions and taking away jobs and scarcity.
Exactly.
It's not that it's not valid, it's just like, let's sit with the fear and then maybe we'll have space for also curiosity, which will be more generative, might embrace it, lean into it, opportunities.
I agree completely.
Yeah.
And being being curious about this process, I think we'll be, you know, asking ourselves, you know, how can how can we interact, you know, with those who maybe want to, you know, take jet jet GBT and like start, you know, the next line, you know, of artificialness and move us further away from human relationships.
And so just being curious about others motivations for using, you know, technology, I think will will take us, you know, a great distance.
Yeah, and even just thinking about this pod, that's why that's the word I got to use, the pod.
Eventually there'll be so much transcript data to put into the systems that would can say like, what question would Josiah ask next?
Or what would Caitlin ask next?
I would love to see that, like, it's got me down.
That'll be like, okay, and then Caitlin asks this probably.
Exactly, and then we can pretend, you know.
And so, you know, the useful part of, you know, computers in general and artificial intelligence for sure is helping, you know, it, you know, to, or helping, it helps us to remember things that we wouldn't have otherwise or seen trends that we wouldn't have otherwise.
And so there's certainly some benefits there to automating some of the processes we're doing here.
Yeah, getting to spy on our own brains.
I was going to say, yeah, I'd be very curious.
Yeah.
All right.
So as we wind down here, it's been a lovely time to chat.
I have some rapid fire questions for you that Josiah has seen.
So he knows these are coming and it's going to be fascinating to hear his answers.
So what are you reading right now, Josiah?
Okay, so I'm reading a couple different books.
I generally have four or five that I'm working on at a given time.
But the two that I'm working on, fiction versus nonfiction, are the oh goodness, I just had the name a second ago.
It's the
Author of the Martian Chronicles and it's Project Hail Mary.
That's what it's called.
Yeah.
Andy Weir.
That's probably been my favorite so far.
You know, he's a scientist and he's trying to solve these problems out in space.
It's fascinating.
Yeah.
And what's your favorite song right now?
Favorite song right now?
I've been listening to a lot of Twenty One Pilots.
They're definitely my go-to band and probably car radio.
There's a lot of time in the car, so car radio is pretty good.
Favorite comfort food?
Popcorn.
What's the last movie you saw that you recommend?
I hope
Love it.
Okay.
When's the last time you cried?
Last time I cried.
Actually, this past Monday, September 18th, was the anniversary of my mother passing.
And she passed in 2020, very rare brain disease.
And so that was probably the last time I shed tears, or definitely the last time I shed tears.
Yeah, very potent of time.
Anniversaries.
Yep.
Hmm.
What is your favorite beverage right now?
Favorite beverage?
I'm a big water guy.
So there's, there's not a lot that I mean, water is H good old H2O is probably what it is still right now.
There's there's not a lot of ways you can go wrong from that.
Classic.
And where are you on social media right now?
Maybe you want, well, you decide if you want listeners to check in with you or tell us what your platform is.
For sure.
I have, you know, musings on, you know, on Twitter, underscore Jay Clemons.
I also have Instagram.
I'm always fond of people checking in there.
That's probably where I'm most active.
That's Clemonsta, C-L-E-M-O-N-S-T-A.
A Boston play on words for my last name, Clemonsta.
I did not know that.
See?
These questions.
The last question for you is what are you grateful for right now?
This is for right now.
I'm grateful for a lot.
Daily gratitude is something that's certainly important to me.
And I mean, I'm grateful for the time that we've had today.
This has been just such a insightful time into you and myself.
But I'm also grateful for strong friendships.
Previously mentioned the November project where we've both worked out and where I co-lead, just really given an opportunity to
You know, exercise and be outside, have fun, but also cultivate some deep friendships.
So most grateful for those, I would say.
Amazing.
Well, this is just one of our many conversations.
So a joy to have you on our show together, The Pod, Just Share.
I'm honored to be here.
We'll be continued.
We'll have more conversations here and outside, and I look forward to that.
To be continued.
I do as well.
Thank you for having me.
All right.
Living as a Data Analyst with Empathy